Pokémon Trainers for Brawl?

[Johans Nidorino]

No, this is not a submission... Not yet ;D

You guys remember for sure the first update from this week, Pokémon Trainer. When I saw it, I was like "WTF? Pokémon were supposed not to be explicitly dependant on their trainers in SSB games!!". And I'm still shocked, especially because of his name. Why "Pokémon Trainer"? And my question isn't to ask "why not Red" or "why not Ash Ketchum", but "why not a name overall".

It could mean one or both of these two things:
1. Nintendo is confirming once again, just like in the Stadium / Colosseum / Battle games, and even the RPG ones sometimes, that the figure of Red, Gold, May, Dawn, and the others is just an avatar for the players of the game, and that the Pokémon are the actual characters you "play as".

2. There could be one more human character from Pokémon that will be selectable in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Because if you have a "Pokémon Trainer", then why not a "Pokémon - something else"? "Pokémon Professor"? "Pokémon Gym Leader"? "Pokémon Rival"? "Pokémon Champion"? The latter two are the most likely IMO, because they're actual battlers and are unique in each of the games they appear on.

For this thread, I want to focus on #2. How about "Pokémon Rival" and "Pokémon Champion"?



"Pokémon Champion" sounds pretty cool. There's always one in each of the main Pokémon games, and the Pokémon Champion has very powerful Pokémon. The Pokémon Champion is the toughest character around, so why not the Pokémon Champion? I thought about Lance, Steven, Wallace, and *spoilers*, and it seemed possible that a Pokémon Champion could use powerful Pokémon such as Dragonite, Tyranitar, and Metagross in Brawl. However, I forgot an important detail: "Pokémon Trainer" is based after Red! And who was the actual Pokémon Champion when Red reached the Pokémon League? It was none other than the Rival himself!



Now, "Pokémon Rival". This would make things pretty symmetric if you ask me.

• Pokémon battles are generally made of one Trainer vs. one Trainer.
  
• Red is an avatar of every Pokémon Trainer, and Blue is an avatar of every Rival, especially in the Kanto plot.
  
• The names of their anime counterparts come from two important Nintendo people.

What Pokémon would Blue have? His default team in the portable games, excluding starters, is made of Pidgeot, Alakazam, Rhydon, Exeggutor, Arcanine, and Gyarados.

• Exeggutor, Arcanine, and Gyarados shouldn't be in, because they're not always seen.
  
• Rhydon... has now an evolved form, so it's not that spectacular anymore, and it's a random Pokémon that fights on the ground anyway.
  
• Pidgeot is a bird! It sounds crazy, but could it be a Charizard-like character?
  
• Alakazam could totally work as a light and powerful character with psychic powers.

All of those are a bit minor, because you can't directly associate them with Blue or at least with Gary Oak (I take it Rhydon appears in the manga, but is that relevant enough?).

For starters from R/B/FR/LG, we have any member of the Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise family.

• A member of the Venusaur or Charizard family wouldn't be that associated with Blue. Plus it would repeat one or more Pokémon families that would already have.
  
• Blastoise represents the Blue Version of the games, symbolizes Pokémon overall along with Charizard, it's the starter that Gary Oak got in the anime, and, like in the Pokémon games, has a type advantage over the main Pokémon of the protagonist. But, would they make Blastoise appear even though Squirtle is already playable?

And, IMO, the most likely Pokémon that a Blue-based Pokémon Rival could have is Eevee.

• Vaporeon, Flareon, or Jolteon are the Pokémon that Blue can evolve Eevee into, but he didn't have the three of them.
  
• Eevee is the most unique Pokémon that Blue can have. It could actually evolve into one of its 7 discovered evolved forms according to the stage it's fighting on, like in Shrikeswind's idea. It wouldn't be fair to have the evolved forms of Eevee, and not Eevee itself. In the anime, Gary Oak also got an Eevee, who later evolved into an Umbreon. Also, don't forget! Eevee and its 5 former evolved forms have been starter Pokémon, and Eevee has been shown in SSBM due to its peculiarities.

Summarizing, I think that the Pokémon that identify Blue the most are Blastoise and Eevee. And I'm not sure what should be a third one.

?

Any thoughts on this? Would Pokémon Rival be a likely character (and name)?

[Shrikeswind]

I think there ought to be a trinity of trainers to bring in the full range of Kanto starters. These trainers would be the two playable characters (Red, with his already revealed line-up, Leaf with Venusaur, Charmander, and Wartortle,) and the rival (Blue, of course, with Blastoise, Charmeleon, and Bulbasaur.) Remember, the rival always picks a starter you don't with type-advantage (so, if Red picks Charmander, Blue picks Squirtle.) In order to rival Red's team, Blue would need the exact same team in different stages, the type-advantage being bumped back one stage (Charmeleon having the advantage on Ivysaur, for example.) The third character, Leaf, would get the ones advantagous to Blue but weak to Red (like Dawn's choice in D/P, should you say boy,) making her in posession of Venusaur, Wartortle, and Charmander, now having advantage to Blue.

[Johans Nidorino]

I just remembered a few things I forgot to mention about Blue

• Red has an Espeon in Pokémon G/S/C, and Gary Oak has an Umbreon in the anime. So I guess in any case Umbreon would be the preferred Eevee evolution should he have to use Eevee.
  
• In Pokémon Yellow, the final team of Gary includes Sandslash, Alakazam, Exeggutor (those three always), and also Magneton, Ninetales, and Cloyster (depending on his eeveelution).
  
• In Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen, the final team of Gary as rematch consists of: Heracross, Alakazam, and Tyranitar as the Pokémon that don't depend on your starter.

So, do you really believe they'll give that many character slots to representatives of Kanto? ^_^; I know what you say would be the perfectly symmetric way to do it if the number of characters were really high (and if they had proper names instead of common names), but I don't think it's that likely.

Now that you insist in the importance of Leaf, I only see her being an alternate model for "Pokémon Trainer", only as a choice for players that want a female character. Because as much as she appears in artworks and manga, the truth is that Leaf and Kris are mere female versions of Red and Gold, unlike Brendan/May and Lucas/Dawn, who always appear in the plot regardless of the gender you pick.

[Shrikeswind]

True, but I feel that if there were a trainer more suited to grass starters, it'd have to be Leaf. Her name alone makes it perfect (named after Leaf Green, version mascot being Venusaur, also that Venusaur is a grass Pokemon.) The starter connected with Red most is Charizard, the starter with Blue being Blastoise, Leaf's kinda stuck with it, but Venusaur seems to fit her like a glove. My reasoning for saying "Oh, give the trainers the starters" is because of symmetry for one, but for another, Red's most connected Pokemon is Pikachu, but if you take a peek over or under Ness (depending on whether Luigi's been unlocked yet or not,) you can see the problem there. Eevee would be a sensible choice to add in, seperate from Blue, since Eevee's just as well connected to Blue as Pikachu to Red, despite the break.

When it comes to symmetry, I'm not exactly huge on it despite my suggestion, but the teams, should Leaf and Blue make it in, would have to feature Venusaur and Blastoise, they're just too well connected in whatever way. Eevee, should Eevee be in, shouldn't be with Blue because of a variety of reasons, the big one being that Eevee is able to do things not many others can (a split-line, further emphasized by the huge number, seven.) My suggestion, should Blue be submitted, is either pick all three starters to rival Red's, or to pick Blastoise and two of his Pokemon, Growlithe and Kadabra are good ideas. For Leaf, I'd go with a pair of feminine Pokemon, probably Nidorina and Clefairy, if she were to be skipped as far as starters go.

Now, three trainers is perfect. We don't need any more than that. I chose the RBYFL trainers, but May could replace Leaf, though I wouldn't know why, and in fact I'd be willing to let May in as well as Leaf. More trainers equals more playable Pokemon, and I'm up for that.

[Bestgamer1]

He would seem like a suitable character. My suggestion for the third Pokemon is either Alakazam or Heracross. One of those two seem suitable.

[Johans Nidorino]

Between Alakazam and Kadabra, Alakazam might be a better idea for two reasons, albeit a bit obscure:

• Alakazam doesn't reference psychic Uri Geller as much as Kadabra does.
  
• Alakazam is lighter than Kadabra.

[Shrikeswind]

Good point.

I thought of an idea, by the way: Two really famous gym leaders.

Misty: Psyduck, Poliwhirl, Togetic (all from games, surprisingly. Stadium 2 for Togetic and Poliwhirl, Psyduck from Stadium 2 and a prevo from her GSC Pokemon, Golduck. Unfortunately, her signature Starmie wouldn't fit, being too unorthodox in style.)

Brock: Geodude, Kabutops, and Cubone (all of which are from the games, the latter two from Stadium and Kabutops also from GSC.)

[Johans Nidorino]

Brock has a Rhydon in Stadium 2 and in some TCG cards (and the species is the evolved form of one of his Pokémon from G/S/C). IDK, perhaps a good choice for a heavy Pokémon if Giovanni is not present? Cubone and Marowak are cool and all but have nothing to do with him.

Onix: same reasons as Starmie I guess x-D

[Shrikeswind]

'Kay, Rhydon over Cubone.

And yeah, Onix and Starmie have same reasons.

[Kriven]

Brock needs his Vulpix...

I choose May over Leaf, but honestly, I don't want another trainer presented in the same form as Red. It will make Red too bland and less original.

[Shrikeswind]

Brock is the Rock Gym leader. Naturally, Rock-types are what he gets. Besides the fact that he considered Vulpix to be Suzy's, despite that Brock was holding on to it and training it and what not. Rock all the way.

And by the way, Red's just a rip-off of Zelda. Zelda transformed, Red swaps Pokemon. The only difference is in numbers, and really, I get the feeling we'll see Tetra hit Zelda's transforms with Shiek (which, of course, will screw with everyone, given their jobs.)

[Kriven]

Yeah, but when you're Shiek you don't see Zelda scurrying around the BG. Having more trainers running around back there will make it feel less cool.

[Shrikeswind]

Hardly. It's a militant character style, which is totally awesome.

[Johans Nidorino]

kriven said:

Yeah, but when you're Shiek you don't see Zelda scurrying around the BG. Having more trainers running around back there will make it feel less cool.

I agree that it would look somewhat messy. It would be cooler if somehow the opposite trainer could appear in a foreground of the stage. BTW that's a problem we'll have when 4 players choose Pokémon Trainer, too . So I guess it's not that important. Perhaps it would be an unlockable character, just like Megatron from DreamMix TV: World Fighters.

... Or perhaps, do you guys remember the colors of the teams you can build in SSB games? Red, Blue, and Green? *EarthBound mystery sound plays*

This whole background characters stuff is the reason why I never submittted the Mt. Battle stage featuring Shadow Lugia and an actual battle in the crater

[Johans Nidorino]

*bumps*

What about this?

Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald starters all look very suitable to fight (maybe with the exception of Mudkip and Torchic). Many would be happy to play as Treecko and other two Pokémon from Hoenn as an alternate team or something.

After all, Kanto and Hoenn are like sibling regions because of the third-generation Pokémon games.

This came to my mind after realizing that Johto and Sinnoh (unlike Hoenn) both have starters that have been shown in Smash Bros. DOJO!! updates so far, automatically saying they won't be playable.