New Character: Alice (Balloon Kid)

[parrothead1983]

Name: Alice
First Game Appearance: Balloon Kid (also appeared in Balloon Fight GB only in Japan)
Platform: Original Game Boy (Game Boy Color for Balloon Fight GB in Japan)

SPECIAL MOVES:

B: Water Balloon (She throws water balloons at her opponents, which gives them a small amount of damage. The range is about as half as long as Adult Link's Boomerang, it's splash can damage anyone close by)

Forward + B: Balloon Whoosh (Pumps a large balloon for about 1 second, then sends it flying straight toward an opponent, and blows up)

Down + B: Detach / Pump (Alice detaches her balloons, while she'll fall down on an opponent. If she hits one, she'll bounce back up to her balloons and retach herself. If she misses an opponent, her balloons would fly away, and you'll have to use Down + B to make her pump up one or two more balloons.)

Up + B: Balloon Spin (spins up in the air like this YTMND fad)

Super Smash Move: Balloon Bomb (Alice will pump up a balloon with hydrogen instead of helium, then she'll fly away from it while she throws a lit-up matchstick at it to ignite it)

Taunt: Covers her mouth with one hand while she giggles like Shirley Temple.

Entrance: Pumps her balloons up.

Victory Theme

I know Balloon Fighter is more familiar than Alice, but the Balloon Fighter's name is unknown according to the trophy description. There is actually more than one Balloon Fighter.

Alice is a better choice, because the titles she appeared in have a storyline, and she is a Balloon Fighter that has a name and a personality. Also, SSBB needs more female characters.

Here are videos of Balloon Kid and Balloon Fight GB being played at the beginning:

Balloon Kid

Balloon Fight GB

[Shrikeswind]

Eh...I'm not so sure about the move-set. Prove me wrong however you can, though, just so I'm positive on my decision.

Also, I'd like to see regular old Balloon Kid show up alongside her in that particular update, just to point out.

[parrothead1983]

Even though a nameless Balloon Fighter has appeared in more titles than Alice, a nameless Balloon Fighter was only used for "retro action". If Nintendo wants to create a REAL Balloon Fight title, they'll have to make it the direct sequel to Balloon Kid/Balloon Fight GB, by adding these modes:

Story Mode: Same gameplay of Balloon Kid's 1P Mode, where you collect balloons while avoiding and/or defeating enemies.

VS. Mode: Same gameplay of the original Balloon Fight's 1P and 2P Modes, where you try to pop as many Balloon Fighters' balloons.

AND

Balloon Trip: The classic mode where you collect balloons while avoiding sparks and the water.

If most of you don't want generic Nintendo characters, then why do y'all still want a nameless Balloon Fighter in SSBB who is also generic? Sakurai is searching for unique characters, and Alice is more unique than a nameless Balloon Fighter. Why am I not just calling him "Balloon Fighter"? Because his name isn't like a super-hero name, it's just like "police officer", "fire fighter", "soldier", and other occupations.

If Sakurai adds a character that is only popular, people might not enjoy it. For example:

Before playing SSBB: "Wow! Geno's in SSBB! I'm going to buy it and play it now!"

After playing SSBB: "What the freak!? Geno sucks @$$! I'm going to sell SSBB!"

[Phinos]

An original moveset, but I love it anyways!! Very nice submission!!

[Shrikeswind]

parrothead1983 said:

Even though a nameless Balloon Fighter has appeared in more titles than Alice, a nameless Balloon Fighter was only used for "retro action". If Nintendo wants to create a REAL Balloon Fight title, they'll have to make it the direct sequel to Balloon Kid/Balloon Fight GB, by adding these modes:

Story Mode: Same gameplay of Balloon Kid's 1P Mode, where you collect balloons while avoiding and/or defeating enemies.

VS. Mode: Same gameplay of the original Balloon Fight's 1P and 2P Modes, where you try to pop as many Balloon Fighters' balloons.

AND

Balloon Trip: The classic mode where you collect balloons while avoiding sparks and the water.

If most of you don't want generic Nintendo characters, then why do y'all still want a nameless Balloon Fighter in SSBB who is also generic? Sakurai is searching for unique characters, and Alice is more unique than a nameless Balloon Fighter. Why am I not just calling him "Balloon Fighter"? Because his name isn't like a super-hero name, it's just like "police officer", "fire fighter", "soldier", and other occupations.

If Sakurai adds a character that is only popular, people might not enjoy it. For example:

Before playing SSBB: "Wow! Geno's in SSBB! I'm going to buy it and play it now!"

After playing SSBB: "What the freak!? Geno sucks @$$! I'm going to sell SSBB!"

Four words that trump that entire post.

Mister. Game. And. Watch.

Also, remember, popularity can make a character well wanted, but why would they be popular? Either because they suck that bad or they rock that hard.

[Ansur]

No. Just no.

[Kriven]

Maybe, I'm a bit torn between Alice and Balloon Fighter (Who I've decided to name Bop.)

[Johans Nidorino]

I've came to the conclusion that Balloon Fighter (name which appeared first in Super Smash Bros. Melee) is now at the same "generic" level as the Excitebike rider. Both of them come from games that had sequels (Balloon Kid and Excitebike 64 respectively, just to name some) with properly named characters on them, and they also were featured in SSBM as trophies that claimed that they were unnamed, or the trophies didn't name them at all.

parrothead1983 is right about calling Balloon Fighter a "generic" character. Why? Well, the Trophy Room from Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001) states that his name is unknown (the first player's character from what we can see). I usually don't completely trust all the info from the Trophy Room, because SSBM is five years old and the info can be retconned (and there have been some minor errors and pointless facts in them). But the reference to this character as "a fighter" or "your fighter" (and not "Fighter" alone) in WarioWare: Twisted! (2005) supports that theory. I'm convinced that the other related characters (Balloon Man and Alice) might also have enough reasons to appear in SSBB if Nintendo wanted to include them in the game.

I don't mind seeing Alice in SBL and SSBB, no matter if Balloonist/Balloon Fighter doesn't appear along with her. Like with any SSB fan site, it's Prediction vs. Fandom here. Do you like Balloonist/Balloon Fighter? Upload him. Do you want to state that he has better chances than Alice or Balloon Man? Think twice. The only thing that can change my mind now would be an instruction booklet for Balloon Fight-e or Balloon Fight for Virtual Console stating that Balloon Fighter is indeed the superhero-like name for the classic character.

I'm not sure about her Extreme Attack, but I can't come up with something, either.

[Kriven]

Actually... if you think about it, they don't necessarily need a name. Just because he'll be named Balloon Fighter doesn't mean he has a better chance then Alice. Everybody can recognize the classic Balloon Fighter, but Alice is much less known. They are probably going to use a character that can be identified.

[parrothead1983]

But after the release of Balloon Fight GB in Japan, it became kind of popular, because people in Japan wanted a sequel to Balloon Fight, giving Alice a pretty good chance to enter SSBB at least as a trophy.

[Shrikeswind]

nidorino said:

parrothead1983 is right about calling Balloon Fighter a "generic" character. Why? Well, the Trophy Room from Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001) states that his name is unknown (the first player's character from what we can see). I usually don't completely trust all the info from the Trophy Room, because SSBM is five years old and the info can be retconned (and there have been some minor errors and pointless facts in them). But the reference to this character as "a fighter" or "your fighter" (and not "Fighter" alone) in WarioWare: Twisted! (2005) supports that theory. I'm convinced that the other related characters (Balloon Man and Alice) might also have enough reasons to appear in SSBB if Nintendo wanted to include them in the game.

Of course, but you're forgetting: Until Melee, Mr. Game and Watch was generic, too. You wouldn't be able to tell what Mr. Game and Watch was from the Game and Watch screen save for human. Also, you're leaving out Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Pichu, all of whom are a generic (though famous) Pokemon. Does any Smash game (whichever they're from) specify WHICH Pikachu/Jigglypuff/Pichu it is? Until Melee, did we know that Mr. Game and Watch was one character? Answer to both of them: Nope.

Do you want to state that he has better chances than Alice or Balloon Man? Think twice.

That's a faulty assumption. Never once did I say that, and never once did I believe it.

Here's a random thought. Could Balloon Kid may actually be about Balloon Fight's Balloonist's sister? Discuss.

[Johans Nidorino]

admin said:

nidorino said:

parrothead1983 is right about calling Balloon Fighter a "generic" character. Why? Well, the Trophy Room from Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001) states that his name is unknown (the first player's character from what we can see). I usually don't completely trust all the info from the Trophy Room, because SSBM is five years old and the info can be retconned (and there have been some minor errors and pointless facts in them). But the reference to this character as "a fighter" or "your fighter" (and not "Fighter" alone) in WarioWare: Twisted! (2005) supports that theory. I'm convinced that the other related characters (Balloon Man and Alice) might also have enough reasons to appear in SSBB if Nintendo wanted to include them in the game.

Of course, but you're forgetting: Until Melee, Mr. Game and Watch was generic, too. You wouldn't be able to tell what Mr. Game and Watch was from the Game and Watch screen save for human. Also, you're leaving out Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Pichu, all of whom are a generic (though famous) Pokemon. Does any Smash game (whichever they're from) specify WHICH Pikachu/Jigglypuff/Pichu it is? Until Melee, did we know that Mr. Game and Watch was one character? Answer to both of them: Nope.

Mr. Game & Watch's first appearance was Super Smash Bros. Melee. He's a character conceived as an amalgam of -if you want to name them that way- Ball Man, Fire Man, Octopus Man, Oil Panic Man, Parachute Man, Judge Man, Flagman, Lion Man, and other characters. Of course this leaves SBL room for other characters not included in Mr. Game & Watch, namely Climber, Balloon Man, Tropical Fish Man, Wolf, Squish, and others.

You're right about the Pokémon from SSBM; just don't forget what you implied: they were important, they were chosen because of something.

As Kriven Raven said, Balloon Fighter has the pros that he was considered to be included in SSBM; he also became hugely popular because of recent cameos and references in other Nintendo games, as well as remakes and ports. From my evidence, 1P Balloon Fighter may also be seen as just the color swap of 2P Balloon Fighter (compare to 1P Bubbles vs 2P Bubbles).

The Balloon Fight theme song that appears in Super Smash Bros. Melee is an unmodified version of the original Balloon Trip mode one (the same way as the Mushroon Kingdom and Mushroom Kingdom II themes are). But, Balloon Kid also uses a remixed version of that song as its main overworld theme.

Okay, so you ("anybody") think Balloon Fighter has an identity? parrothead1983 just stated that Alice has enough value to be considered as an alternative to Balloon Fighter, and I agree with him. Plus "a" ("one more", if you prefer) female character addition won't hurt.

admin said:

Do you want to state that he has better chances than Alice or Balloon Man? Think twice.

That's a faulty assumption. Never once did I say that, and never once did I believe it.

This is the kind of things that you will see me discussing less and less as time passes.

[parrothead1983]

Balloon Fight is considered by some people as a clone of Joust, but the most unique thing about Balloon Fight is Game C - Balloon Trip, which is the mode that Balloon Kid/Balloon Fight GB is mostly based on, as well as being a platformer.

Adding a Balloon Fighter instead of Alice is just like adding the green-haired, wired boxer from the Punch-Out!! arcades (presumed by some people to be known as "Challenger") instead of Little Mac (NES and/or SNES version).

[Shrikeswind]

nidorino said:

admin said:

Of course, but you're forgetting: Until Melee, Mr. Game and Watch was generic, too. You wouldn't be able to tell what Mr. Game and Watch was from the Game and Watch screen save for human. Also, you're leaving out Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Pichu, all of whom are a generic (though famous) Pokemon. Does any Smash game (whichever they're from) specify WHICH Pikachu/Jigglypuff/Pichu it is? Until Melee, did we know that Mr. Game and Watch was one character? Answer to both of them: Nope.

You're right about the Pokémon from SSBM; just don't forget what you implied: they were important, they were chosen because of something.

Yup, I know as much. They were chosen because Pokemon is a popular franchise, and the chosen four were the most popular of them. We know that cult classic series are gonna be seen making the cut, Pit proved that point by being in the trailers. So, if another cult classic series, Balloon Fight, as the case may be, manages to make the cut, we can be certain that a well-known character from the series would get in. Why not Balloonist?

As Kriven Raven said, Balloon Fighter has the pros that he was considered to be included in SSBM; he also became hugely popular because of recent cameos and references in other Nintendo games, as well as remakes and ports. From my evidence, 1P Balloon Fighter may also be seen as just the color swap of 2P Balloon Fighter (compare to 1P Bubbles vs 2P Bubbles).

That's certainly true. My only question now is what you mean by the color swap.

The Balloon Fight theme song that appears in Super Smash Bros. Melee is an unmodified version of the original Balloon Trip mode one (the same way as the Mushroon Kingdom and Mushroom Kingdom II themes are). But, Balloon Kid also uses a remixed version of that song as its main overworld theme.

Come to think, alot of music is remixed versions of old stuff.

Okay, so you ("anybody") think Balloon Fighter has an identity? parrothead1983 just stated that Alice has enough value to be considered as an alternative to Balloon Fighter, and I agree with him. Plus "a" ("one more", if you prefer) female character addition won't hurt.

Enough value to replace Balloonist? I doubt it. Enough to at the very least garner an alternate costume for Balloonist? Sure. That's not what I think would happen, though, and I certainly don't want it to, hence the stress, but the most that could happen would be side-by-side fighting and the least would be a no-show from both. And I, by the way, support the most.

[Johans Nidorino]

admin said:

nidorino said:

You're right about the Pokémon from SSBM; just don't forget what you implied: they were important, they were chosen because of something.

Yup, I know as much. They were chosen because Pokemon is a popular franchise, and the chosen four were the most popular of them. We know that cult classic series are gonna be seen making the cut, Pit proved that point by being in the trailers. So, if another cult classic series, Balloon Fight, as the case may be, manages to make the cut, we can be certain that a well-known character from the series would get in. Why not Balloonist?

My comment about Pokémon was more leaned to the origins of their identity, since the SSB Pokémon appearances have a heavy animé influence. But then again, you or anybody else would argue that regardless of Mewtwo being considerable as animé's Mewtwo, Pikachu being considerable as Ash's/Red's Pikachu, Jigglypuff being considerable as animé's Jigglypuff, and Pichu being considerable as Pichu Big, they keep being generic Pokémon.

Nintendo trophies gave a lot of emphasis to the origins of Nintendo, and it was natural, because it was the first "Trophy Room" encyclopedia they had ever done. But isn't it obvious that they overlooked a lot of stuff? I was wondering for years why were not Little Mac or Diddy Kong shown there. Ask parrothead1983 what were my opinions on the Balloon Fighter subject just one month ago; I didn't see Alice as a possible choice, since I was in love with Balloonist/Balloon Fighter, and I hadn't paid close attention to how Nintendo references Balloonist/Balloon Fighter. Sometimes I wonder why wasn't Balloon Fighter included as playable and why they should have included him.
Why not:

• Nintendo had Alice in mind?
  
• Were there too many floating characters?
  
• Ice Climber's tag team concept was too important or the roster had to be too limited?

Why yes:

• Balloon Fighter had more importance and identity than characters from any sequel?
  
• He could have been easy to implement because HAL had the knowledge to develop yet another floating character.
  
• He is a kick-ass of a classic character.

Why yes but not:

• Flippers were present in the game. But Lip's Stick was present, too, as well as Panel de Pon's Garbage Block.
  
• Balloon Trip's theme song was present in the game. But Mach Rider's was, too.

Why yes but not but yes:

• Balloon Fighter was a trophy and Lip wasn't.

Why yes but not but yes but not:

• Balloon Fighter was a trophy and Lip wasn't, but Diddy Kong wasn't, either, which probably means "importance" is not directly proportional to "trophy appearance".

admin said:

That's certainly true. My only question now is what you mean by the color swap.

1P's unnamed Balloon Fighter is a color swap of 2P's unnamed Balloon Fighter and vice-versa. Mario and Luigi were color-swap characters with names, as well as Popo & Nana, and Bubbles (in the particular case of 1P; not 2P). Non-Nintendo color-swapped characters included Nuts & Milk, Scorpion & Sub-Zero, and Ryu & Ken. Examples of Nintendo unnamed characters with color swaps are 1P Urban Champion fighter & 2P Urban Champion fighter and 1P Excitebike protagonist & the rest of the Excitebike crew, and possibly, the Balloon Fighters.

admin said:

Okay, so you ("anybody") think Balloon Fighter has an identity? parrothead1983 just stated that Alice has enough value to be considered as an alternative to Balloon Fighter, and I agree with him. Plus "a" ("one more", if you prefer) female character addition won't hurt.

Enough value to replace Balloonist? I doubt it. Enough to at the very least garner an alternate costume for Balloonist? Sure. That's not what I think would happen, though, and I certainly don't want it to, hence the stress, but the most that could happen would be side-by-side fighting and the least would be a no-show from both. And I, by the way, support the most.

In the game series he has been replaced. Now let's talk about values... Balloon Fighter "almost" made it to SSBM; okay, we know it, but remember: it was not a random "almost". They were looking for a classic character that represented the NES era. Popo & Nana were a pair of them, along with Balloon Fighter, Urban Champion fighter, and Excitebike rider. With value I'm meaning that "categorization". What if Alice is the one chosen to represent GB stuff if they want somebody for that purpose?



Look, Balloon Kid and its three versions are considered sequels for Balloon Fight. If there appears a Wii sequel for Balloon Fight (or plans for it) with Balloonist/Balloon Fighter as a protagonist, then add that to my list of things that will change my mind about this subject. I can't change anyone's mind to mine; I just recommend everybody play Balloon Kid just for the sake of learning a little bit more of that Nintendo Universe we've all been bound to love.